or there is a reason why the board won't let the public know about it.
nothing hurts to let everyone discuss this in public.
might not hurt to contact them and ask why
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

Kurt - great questions and I think you should keep posting those questions until every single one of them gets answered. Have you scrolled all the way down to see that many of your questions got answered?
You may also want to contact the school board to figure out why they are keeping this quiet and not discussing it as a viable option as the school grows to 2 high schools with 2 varsity teams and our kindergarten classes grow to 1000 kids and don't look to stop growing each and every year for time to come.
We weren't proactive for years, seemingly had our heads in the sand that the growth won't come, got behind in buiding elementaries and are now trying to play catch-up. Let's learn from our mistakes and get this community recreation complex built that EVERYONE in the community can use.
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

"Pay as we go" NOW there is a novel idea. I read letters by our illustrius President George where he claims the old guys need to "pay as they go." Huss and Graber too..... now I hear the bond is not for the fixed building but PADDED with consultants and desks????

Ralph, I believe when you look at the project you'll learn that the project has been scaled back from it's original designs. The current project is based upon the needs of the district, the community and the realistic economic benefits that would go along with the proposed facilities.

At last OZ has stepped forward with the answers for inquiring minds.
What are the taxpayer implications of the Kramme proposal?
To what use would revenue received by the city and district be used, if they received it during its operation? Why not reduce property taxes with some of this free money from the kramme business operation? In my view, the public needs more time to learn and understand the consequences before a Board meeting is held to discuss it with the pu blic and then conduct a vote on it. Is the actual Kramme proposal available on the school board/district website? There needs to be some serious analysis of this proposal before asking the lemmings to go over the cliff.

I understand what you are saying. My question is exactly how would all these fields of dreams be financed and who gets stuck with the bill. Whom exactly would benefit from the "great source of revenue" of which you speak? At the moment city revenue is more or less flat so any significant bond issue probably implies another tax rate increase. That is what just happened recently. So, why not use some of this great source of revenue you speak of to pay back the tax payers who finance this thing?
or is all this just another tax and spend scam?

I agree Jim, this is a great opportunity for Ankeny and I think this needs to be given the research and attention of both the city and school board to see if this is a viable option for Ankeny. Why should Ankeny not have the money in our community? Not to mention the other businesses that this facility will hopefully attract - which will bring more commercial revenue to Ankeny.

You say the project would not go towards general obligation bonds, just how would it be financed then?

Joe I would attend the next meeting and ask that/those questions. However, I believe there was an article in the DM Register a few months back on the project. One item I kept was -
From the article: What’s next
The Krammes plan to set up meetings with stakeholders in the community, including sports teams interested in indoor and outdoor space. They would also like to set up a citizen advisory group. The developers are soliciting public feedback on the project and information from people with a sports needs; email cklanddev@aol.com.

Joe,
As I understand the project it is based on a trio of main entities. The Ankeny Community School District, The City of Ankeny, and The Investment Group of Kramme. Under these obviously the school is it's own entity, but under the city we have several groups in the city that would be paying lease fees to the city for the rights of usage of the facilities at the complex similar to the current set-up at Prairie Ridge. Then under the Investment Group their would obviously be investors as well. Then where the money really comes in is the ability to host State, Regional, and National events on the complex. This brings in thousands of people all year long to the Ankeny area not only spending money through the complex but hotels, restaurants, etc. A huge percentage of Ankeny does this now with their kids ( I am one of them) the problem is we have to go to Kansas City, Omaha, Minneapolis, etc. to do it because we do not have a facility here to be able to do this. That in turn takes money away from our community we have to spend also. The school and the city are beneficiaries of the complex revenue stream eventually created and get the use of the complex as well. This has been dicussed since beginnings of 2011 and we are still discussing it. Like Scott stated above, email the investors and they would be more then happy to show you the data. Also as I understand it they are trying to get the actual design group here in front of the school board and city council as well.

The trio of money breaks down I think like this, 1 million from school, 1 million from city, 2 million from the investment group each year for twenty years. After that time the school and city would actually own the sports complex from what I understand. This obviously is a very simplified version, the proposal packet details it much better.

It's not plundering tax dollars. Come to the next board meeting and ask for the proposal to be read or access to it. Read it yourself then form your opinions/comments based on the facts after you read it. As for the comments about Kramme he actually has a sports based company that will do the complex, the name escapes me but it is in the proposal and he is actually trying to get them in front of both the board and the council if they will let him to speak.

So the city pays 1 million a year, the school pays 1 million a year. and after 20 years we own it a $80,000,000 dollor project? wow. i take back all the bad stuff i said. if the school/ city can get this project for $40,000,000 spread over 20 years, this could be as good as the money we spent at prairie trail all over. opps sorry we are not supposed to bring that up, i forgot.

William,
As for the comments on the Kramme's I am not privy to that information, although I do know that they have a sports company that will come in and build and manage this complex through a foundation it is detailed out in the the proposal if you are worried about the financials of them, it's investors other then themselves as well as I understand it. As for the school district being on the hook for millions of dollars every year that is simply not the case. Like Scott said above come to the next board meeting and ask for the proposals presented to them, the school would actually be spending less long term in building facilities and operating costs.

Joe,
The city and school district are not shouldering the capital cost of private commercial projects. This is a "COMMUNITY" complex operated by a foundation and paid for by a partnership. People need to get the facts straight, I will say it once again contact the email above like Scott suggested for accurated information after you read the proposal. If you are not willing to invest the time to read it then you really should not comment on it until you have all the facts, not singling you out Joe making a general statement. There are a lot of misconceptions stated in the comments above as Scott said.

This Sports Advisory company is neither neutral or unbiased when it comes to issuing their "reports" promoting mega athletic complexes. They get paid to market these ideas to communities and make a nice profit doing do.

William, good counter point except the problem is homework verse opinion. Homework is contacting the company and asking them how many complexes they are pitched annually, how many people come ot them with dreams, visions, plans and how many people want to build in their community and have them run. Homework is asking those questions and getting a response of not 100%, not even close. Homework is them saying they go through a detailed study because their company, their reputation in the industry is based upon successful projects. Opinion is well, opinion and not fact.

Take the time to attend a board meeting, ask the questions you want to ask. Get involved with your community. Online items like this are good but also cause lack of interaction out in the community today. Get involved in more then just an online discussion. Make an effort to find out the information. We need people like you in the community to get more involved, find out the details, this in the end is what will drive things.

Peter, I thought I saw your name on the petition, oops I guess that was Marsha. I bet you are right, this new board spent all the money in Prarie Trail and now they have nothing left for the other new high school sports. They will follow the rabbit hole with Kramee to get out of a pickle, blame the losers for making them spend all the money in the first 90 days just like Obama, and hire a management firm wasting taxpayers money and still not complete anything. Their fiscal management is crazy nuts and now they want to jump in bed with a developer with my tax money??? Marsha, Marsha,Marsha....way to keep control of the board Pres George and stay tooooo long Pat. You make us people close to our fixed income days proud.

Peter great opinions. Please help us understand your solution to the need for a football stadium, a complex for 2 swim & 2 diving teams along with indoor space for the incoming almost 1,000 kid kindergarten class. Those are not wants or predictions but needs & facts. Please also help us with a solution to the aquahawks and YMCA programs turning away youth because a lack of space or Ankeny residents having to constantly leave the community to compete in their sport.

I looked at the link Scott M posted below concerning the Topeka School District facilities, have you? Smoke and mirrors, nope, a reality. A community means everyone working together. Everyone needs a part of this project, whether that's the facilities (school, community), the daytime need for space (schools & community), the part-time salaries or revenue (community, school, parents/booster club), the visitor dollars (city, hotels, chamber members), the tax dollars (city, community), the expansion potential (school, community) or exposure of such a grand facility (everyone). You don't have to attend the school board meeting, you don't have to reach out to the Kramme's, you don't have to believe the study by company that has a portforlio of successfull comapnies longer than there are hours in the day! But contact Topeka, see what that facility did for their school district, their community & their city. They don't have a dog in the fight however maybe it will give you a different perspective...maybe

Tell them or U? too post it here. what are you or they? hiding. I dont need to go to a meeting. this is silly, come on now. this is going now where and is a waste of time. next

water is wet ..... NO IT'S NOT! Grass is green ..... NO IT'S NOT! the sky is blue ..... NO IT'S NOT! I feel like that is the argument some people are having on here. Reread the article and you'll find the information you've either misrepresented, misquoted or posted wrongly. E-mail Mr. Kramme and ask questions. Okay, raise your hand if you've done this yet? No, why not, what are you hiding, what are you afraid of, why are you being silly? While I understand that most times in life not everyone will agree with something no matter how right or how wrong it is, no matter how much or how little information you provide. Some people just want to be on the other side, disagree, argue or simply not go with crowd, again right or wrong. I think the school board, the city, Mr. Kramme and the group that did the study appreciates your input. However just disagreeing to disagree gets a community and those that actually live in the community nowhere. The next school board meeting is June 4th, look forward to seeing you there

This misinformation is killing me. Where do you people learn to read? Where in the article does it say, where in any of the Des Moines Register articles does it say and where in any of the school board meeting notes does it say the Kramme brothers own a sports company? Why is it troublesome the plans aren't posted online? Maybe contact the school board, the school district and ask them why they aren't posted on their site? Maybe there are legal reasons, who knows.
Since the school board has admitted they need a new stadium and pools for 2 swim and dive teams, since the aquahawks have to turn individuals away, since we have the same number of athletic facilites as we did in 2000 (population around 27,000 vs 2010 census around 45,000) I think saying there's a need would be a horrible understatement! Again, partnership, community, combine efforts http://www.hummersportspark.com/ so everyone benefits. Why are so against muti-use facilities and sharing in this state?
And you're right, Ankeny is sadly not like those communities as they have 3-4x the number of facilities that Ankeny does in not only their communities but their suburbs also.

Scott M, if you'll read the comments above, Tony Carroll, current president of the Ankeny Sports Booster Club, said twice that Mr. Kramme owns a sports company that will "come in and do" the complex. I'm fairly certain if the city or the school district would become involved in a project such as this, and I sincerely doubt that is going to happen any time soon, then bids would have to sought and due diligence completed on contractors. With the Kramme brothers extensive financial difficulties in recent years, a positive due diligence on them might be quite difficult to obtain. (Source: Iowa Courts Online)

William,
I am going to quote the two instances you are talking about from above right here so you can read them right. First one, 3:28 pm, 5/22/12, "As for the comments about Kramme he actually has a sports based company that will do the complex". Second one, 3:32 pm, 5/22/12, "As for the comments on the Kramme's, I am not privy to that information, although I do know that they have a sports company that will come in and build and manage this complex through a foundation". As you can clearly see, I never once said they "own" the company. They are hired to come in and do the complex, it's not theirs, nor did I ever state it that way. Please get your facts straight before making statements especially when you are stating what I have said. Yes, I am the current president of the Ankeny Sports Booster Club. This is why I am stating that this needs to be on the agenda at both the school board and city council. I have seen and dealt with the badly deteriorating facilities that we currently have. We lose thousands a year on concessions that we in turn give back to the school because of these facilities. I am not saying that this is the total solution but it certainly warrants getting on the agenda's of both and getting it discussed. From a parent standpoint, I think I have clearly laid out on here as well as to why we need this from that standpoint as well.

Well, then what is the cost of all these fields of dreams to Ankeny taxpayers? or is it possible with so much revenue coming to Ankeny that our tax rate could be reduced?

Joe, I met with Mr. Kramme today and was able to take a look at the comprehensive plan for this project. Moving forward, we're going to find a way to share some of this info here on Ankeny Patch, which I don't believe will be too hard. We have the resources to do it, so hopefully this article is only the first of much more information to come!

I would suspect asking them those questions would be your best bet as there are 100s of reason why things can and can't be posted online, in the public, etc.

It was submitted it at a public meeting so the schools shouldnsharenit with the public. What is George and Pat hiding. Maybe they haven't emailed the rest of the board to come to a consensus in private about how to respond yet or met at CJ to get marching orders? They blew all the money on Prarie Trail sports and the city did the same at the outdoor summer aqua center. Instead of using our TAX money with no vote to build a swimming competition pool for the community, they build the coolest water park around with a million dollar surfing area. Now we should give our tax money to Kreamee?

Good grief, this proposal isn't a magic bullet. It's simply one or two guys with one idea. There are multiple ways the city and/or the school district can fund and build athletic facilities. But first, let's focus on having enough classroom space so we can do what schools are first and foremost supposed to do - meet the academic needs of students.

It was just announced today that Dr. Susie Meade, Assistant Superintendent in the Curriculum Dept. is also leaving effective July 1. She has been hired as the new superintendent in Winterset. This is a great win for Winterset, but a huge, huge loss for Ankeny.

Joe love the enthusiam and passion. The problem once again is opinion verse fact. Let's take a look: little or no enthusiam - Iowa Cubs, Iowa Energy, Barnstormers, Iowa Crush, Des Moines Bucs, Des Moines Menace and I know I'm missing a few. Stars/Chops had 3,000 crowds before ownership problems. Then there are other double-A affiliates in Iowa. Vikings, Chiefs, Packers and Bears all have a strong presense. Cubs and Cardinals are spread throughout the state.
Little to no scholarship - Ankeny has 2 kids going DII in basketball, the East Girls team had 4 starters go DI, Waukee girls bb consistently sends players to DII and DIII schools. Check out the Iowa Conference schools for not only metro players but central Iowa players, they are all on scholarship. Check out the U of Iowa and ISU's football roster, LOTS of scholorships there too. 5 Des Moines schools, 4 Cedar Rapids schools, Dubuque, Sioux City, etc all have been playing each other for decades. It's called growth, not a cloke and dagger look what we developed.
A sports coliseum, hardly. A complex similar to the states surrounding us, yes. A complex similar to one on the coasts, on the borders, yes. Everyone who either doesn't have kids competing on travel teams yet, doesn't travel on teams period or don't have kids think large complexes are few and far between....until they travel to them, until one does the research. Joe I love the passion but throw in a fact or 2 every now and then will ya?

The purpose of k-12 schooling is to prepare students for their future & provide variety, options and participatioin - whether that is in college, in life, in athletics, in the office or elsewhere. You want to confine K-12 & education into a bottle and close the cap. Your argument is also incomplete. No one is saying a sports complex is ever built for just the elite level athletes. There will be 1000 kindergarten students in 1-2 years. That is when individuals are learning if they like soccer, band, football, cheer, baseball, softball, dance, basketball, etc. And I think we forget that out of a majority participating in actitivies, most won't received a scholarship ..... yet they still want to participate, be active, hang with friends, be educated outside the classroom. We've talked about a community on here, collaboration, cooperation & to use the athletic term teamwork! Should the schools be expected to pay for a sports complex 100%, well no but they may need to anyway (see need of new football stadium & support for 2 swim and dive teams). Well between youth football, middle school football, 9th, JV and Varsity I bet that's a lot of families. Now factor in volleyball, basketball, track & field, soccer, band, cheer, flag and others and that's a lot more families. Now factor in all the restaurants, bars, hotels, gas stations, convenience stores that benefit by those sports holding events & that's more families. Yeah, I'd say a lot of people are effected positively

William I think you need to check your math education. Visit Prairie Ridge on a Mon-Thurs, times when it's only locals out there and you'll see 1000s of kids, let alone families. Go talk to those 100s of families that have to travel out out of town consistenly in different sports and ask them where they would rather be spending their money. I have already traveled out of town 3 times this spring/summer season, spent $1000s of dollars but here's the kicker, it's been spent at that town's walgreens, Target, convenience store, McDonald's, Applebees and other establishments. Does that mean that Mr. and Mrs. Ankeny that don't have kids around here should help me out, I guess that's up to them. But my neighbor, who umpires USSSA and Little League makes a couple $100 each weekend the weather is nice. One of my co-workers who's a swim official can't do that. There are 100s of benefits to collaboration and working together on facilities that everyone needs. And if you get out of your home, if you talk with someone in a wheelchair who wants to watch a football game, if you try to sign up for swim classes, if you try to stay active in the winter months I think your eyes will truly open.
See you at the next school board meeting!

I'm not 100% sure I follow you on this. We have a lame duck mayor who's had one foot out the door for months. We have a city manager who abruptly retires. We have a counselman who even more abruptly retires. And I might agree with you if there weren't a 3rd party company with a stellar reputation from outside the state that did a feasibility study. And honestly, who's to say he hasn't supplied the paper, city counsel, the school board and others with information weekly. I checked some of the school board meetings, he was in attendance. Let's take another look, maybe it's the city that's scared. They put millions into a failed Prairie Trail project. They've put millions into projects east of I-35 that haven't produced quickly. And the school board is building, building, building and now comes out with a well, these fields aren't going to be ready; well, we might need more money now; well, the elementary might cost more than $17 million. Think on this, maybe the project seems too good to be true because so many of their previous projects have failed. Nah, politics and egos would never get in the way of progress, nevermind.

The bigger question is, do we need professional level athletic facilities so that parents who are living their own athletic dreams through their children can watch their kids practice and play any sport year 'round? Ankeny already places far more importance on sports then they do on academics. My son's calculus teacher is also a tennis coach and he was gone from the classroom during second semester over half the time. The kids had a series of substitute teachers the district was paying $100 a day, in addition to paying the tennis coach/teacher's regular salary, and the quality of teaching was awful.

I would not classify things as all concerns, definitely questions. This is exactly why this needs to be discussed at the board and council meetings with public input. Not putting this on the agenda's at each is doing a disservice to the public's ability to learn and have input on this. You can see from this forum here that it is almost constantly the same 4-5 people talking. It needs to be in a larger setting and more people involved. I agree academics is very important as well but so are the arts and athletics to a child's school development. It all develops a much more rounded individual. Kramme's biggest contribution to this project is the fact that they have the large tract of land that can do this facility and not cost millions for the school and city just to purchase the land before they could do anything else. FYI, I also think that the Patch is going to be posting the details of the proposal on there site to get the info out there that you all are looking for as well.

Good... Let the developer "develope" and keep out of my pocket. If I don't like the council or school boards judgement I can vote them out. They do this then 6 future generations of boards and councils are stuck with the developers debt. taxpayers foot the bill and the Kramee sell their land at a tidy profit and walk. Tony- move to KC and you can have all this for your children. Just don't ask me or other taxpayers to foot the bill. I don't own a hotel or restaurant so by the time your trickle down economics hits my property tax bill, I will be dead and 6 foot under.

Jack F, I would not vote to raise my taxes either to support this project, I never said that. Have an open mind, read Scott's comment and check out the Topeka thing it's pretty informative. I love Ankeny, I wouldn't move somewhere just for a facility like this, there are far more other things to look at when living somewhere besides this. All I am asking is to do some research and see what the positives are for something like this whether it's this proposal or some other form of it. Bobby, I was told today that it is owned by them, it is the Deer Creek Estates land tract. I think they are trying to get SFR to come to town to do an open forum so the public can see and hear about it as well as ask all the questions they want.

Scott Koch, I see you do have a dog in this fight since you're campaigning for this project as part of your job as the Senior Sports Manager for the Des Moines Convention and Business Bureau.

http://www.seedesmoines.com/sports/staff_highlights.php

Do you live in Ankeny? Have children that attend Ankeny schools? Pay Ankeny city and school taxes? I don't think so.

If the "need" for a mega sports complex is really there, then why not privately raise the funds from the parents that have the "need" and build it? If this complex is such a sure thing, then why aren't developers, retailers and others flocking around the project begging to invest and get a piece of the action?

Mr. Koch may not be a resident, but I believe his role at the Des Moines CVB does put him in a position to know the need for such a facility. Ankeny would be a great fit for such a project. As a hotelier, i would see a more direct impact, but with a 7% Hotel tax, that impact would trickle down. These folks will be eating in our restaurants, shopping in our stores, buying fuel...need I go on. Then the proposed location is outstanding. Convenient for us as residents, but slightly outside of town, so we are not increasing traffic in our residential areas. It will obviously cost money, but we can't take it with us, so why not leave some this nice to our children, and grandchildren. As far as the real numbers, I will wait to learn more before I comment on the costs, and benefits. On a side note, please don't think I am one of Mr. Koch's dogs in this fight, as I don't even like the guy...

William ???? Wallace, Jacobson, Anderson or whomever you are I appreciate your perceived research or at least someone in city hall or who doesn't want this project to reach the light of day. I agree that if Scott K isn't an Ankeny resident, isn't an Ankeny tax payer of any kind he shouldn't fully be invested in this discussion. Where I disagree with you is your "dog in the fight". Not knowing anything about that organization other than what I can read online and that they do cover Ankeny, I'd say we want all the experts and those invested in our communities involved as possible. Again, as an Ankeny parents I want this complex because I'm sick of the late nights, I'm sick of the lack of time, I'm sick of driving all over the place and honestly I'm sick of Ankeny having 2nd best compared to everyone else. If Scott Koch has some great knowledge that can bring further information to the table based upon his job I say great, better than someone from Warren, Dallas or Story County popping in trying to offer advice.

William, where did you disappear to?
Have you contacted Mr. Kramme yet?
What about contacting the school board and figuring out why they aren't talking about this project, why they won't bring it up at meetings.
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

Maybe they and their own personal agendas, friends in the community, etc are having some say with that's brought forth. Everyone on the board should have the students and the tax paying citizens first on their minds. ANY personal agendas, feelings, thoughts, past experiences, etc shouldn't be even considered and if they are, they should be off the board immediately!!!
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

Better research? Hmmm, seems like mine was spot on : )

How so? You were correct on 1 of 4 and that's not even good in the sport of baseball :) and would get you kicked out of college if you only passed 1 of 4 of your classes. Yes you figured out who I work for, it's public knowledge and most that have attended the public meetings knew as much. So while I could understand the hostility if I lived in Clive, Altoona, Johnston ..... I don't. Thus since I live, pay and plan to have a future in Ankeny I believe I have a lot more on the line than my job which may or may not benefit from this project. Please keep in-mind we're funded by the hotel/motel tax, not restaurants, gas stations, CIML schools and their parents visiting, sales tax, local option or any other monies. These projects are built first and most importantly for the school district that currently needs something, has to build something. William I look forward to chatting more at the upcoming forum.

I see we hav a Hans Christian Andersen fan with us...

Seriously, if you going to comment on things at least have the guts to use your real name! I have a hard enough time with the people on here that won't post there first and last names. Back up your comments if you really believe in them!

Evil Genius Villain, I am a little confused. The story has three principle characters, the emperor, the tailor, and the child who identified the emperor's lack of clothes. I am not sure, and perhaps others, are not sure what this has to do with the topic of this article as it is about bringing economic development and a new sports venue for the city and central Iowa. Unless you are inferring that this is the fake garment. (If that is the case, we are pretty exposed anyway.) If you are not in support of the proposal, can you just say that? There is no foul for expressing your opinion. However, if you would like more information, come to the school board meetings, research Sports Facility Advisory, which is a group that provides the project management for projects such as this or contact cklandev@aol.com with questions.

People find it psychologically necessary to relate their social and cultural experiences with a story's characters who most likely resembles themselves. I never said who was who. I'll leave that to the individual reader. However, Karen, you are leaving out an obvious character. Without this character, the story has no meaning. Likewise, without this character, your plan has no future.

I know enough Mrs Henderson to know that if I buy a bunch of land as a private developer, I will not require you to take the risk by getting the school to tax you and give it to me. I have a couple of degrees and know enough to spot a private group wanting my taxes to avoid their risk. No matter how good the cause. If it will hold muster then their business plan will get them PRIVATE investors.

Jack, fair enough. So Mr. Kramme says ya know what, I'll just develop the rest of my land as houses, enough of this. The school district still has a stadium to either renovate up to code & provide more visitor seating and public restrooms (so there aren't riots like there almost were last year), add turf because of the added play or build new on land that it will either have to purchase or use that it can't use later for another elementary. The school will then need to build new swimming pools for the 2 swim and diving teams, the YMCA isn't expanding their 25 yard pool and there isn't really room at either HS site for a pool, so now what? That still doesn't solve the need for more indoor space for the 900-1000 kindergarten class. But let's assume the school district acts on their own and builds these. Now the community loses because facilities were built they can't use, that are inside locked up schools, don't produce economic impact & don't help revenues like Mr. Zupan mentions and probably never will. Jack I also have a couple of degrees and not sure of the relevance but while we're talking about school, in numerous business classes my professors stated "Learn to do more with less". “In today's economy we can't all have our own”; take a look at the partnership between Urbandale, WDM, Clive and others with their Westcom system.

Your the one who implied I was uneducated by stating, "you need to go back to school.". Then you add personal insults again by stating" not sure of the relevance" in reference to my statement of education. Personal attacks because you want everyone else to fund new toys for your kids. Priceless

Joe, I don't think it's necessarily reluctance. Mr. Kramme was more than happy to meet with me and share the plans. I'm doing some research on a user-friendly and efficient way to share them here, but in the meantime, perhaps Mr. Kramme would do the same for you if you contacted him?

Joe my god you are worse than my kids most days!
reposting.....
12:50 pm on Tuesday, May 22, 2012

Joe I would attend the next meeting and ask that/those questions. However, I believe there was an article in the DM Register a few months back on the project. One item I kept was -
From the article: What’s next
The Krammes plan to set up meetings with stakeholders in the community, including sports teams interested in indoor and outdoor space. They would also like to set up a citizen advisory group. The developers are soliciting public feedback on the project and information from people with a sports needs; email cklanddev@aol.com

As has been mentioned countless times on here, I would contact Mr. Kramme and ask questions. I would also suggest contacting both city hall and the school board to figure out why THEY have kept this so quiet for so long. Start to look at their agendas, question their motives, ask them why they aren't forth coming. Unless there is a reason you can't/won't.

The council and board are not putting anymore public dollars into private developments until their Praire Trail "investment" pays off. If Kramee was building this in the Trail it would already be a done deal.......

Joe, it's the responsible of whom to do what? I've seen many city of ___ projects to where they have forums, meetings to the library, city hall, a school & only then is the information posted online. Why are you so scared to write/contact Mr. Kramme? Why are you so scared to attend a school board meeting or a function Mr. Kramme (and the public) will be at? I've gone back and read your posts and it sounds like you're searching, desperately searching for a reason to be against this project, why? First you can't add correctly but that was solved. Then you move on to a study, for some reason thinking it wouldn't go this far without one being done until you actually read the article and learn a group out of Florida has done one. Then you moan about taxes & private investment and need until it's learned that Ankeny would be one of many districts across the country with shared community facilities that various entities helped finance including the one in Topeka. And after all those arguments are put to rest, you're now stuck on a website, post it, why won't you post it, I'm going to whine until you post it, post it already. Well Joe, write Kramme, why won't you write Kramme, we have technology at home, at the library, on our phones to send an e-mail, why won't you send an e-mail. If you're so concerned why can't you be professional and send an e-mail. There is a need, the facilties have to be built, there is a community need so why not partner. Partner, what a concept.

Joe, have you contacted the School Board yet to see why they haven't allowed this project to be shown, presented or talked about to the public? Have you contacted the board to determine why they are keeping this so quiet, so hush hush and at the SAME TIME not talking about a football stadium that doesn't meet ADA codes and almost started a riot last year during the state football play-offs? Have you contacted them to determine why nothing is being discussed concerning the need for a swimming pool to house 2 swim teams and 2 dive teams for the school year 13-14? Maybe they would give some insight but for posting it on here, I wouldn't personally.....I don't know you, maybe you're an investment person and you'll try to steal the information and do your own thing. Laugh, but take a step back. I say that from personal experience, when we lived outside of the state, and what happened to one of my husband's projects he threw out to the public for viewing once.
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

Scot, So what you are saying is users can pay. Get all the clubs and sports teams together fund raise and pay for it by private investors... So simple. Keep out of my back pocket. Don't force my contribution. If there are so many people willing to sacrifice for this PRIVAtE project they will INVEST. Capitalism not socialism.

Jack I believe what Scott is trying to say is yes, everyone who will use the facility will pay. I also believe Tony states the same thing and I believe the article states that also. The problem is you want your cake and eat it to. You want the restaurants in the community, you want more convenience type places to open up in your neighborhood. You want more cops on the treat protecting you and you want the library down the street because it looks good for a community to have one. Yet you don't want to pay for anything. You just expect it to occur. And you'll say that you don't have kids or your kids don't participate in any physical activity what so ever or you're single or whatever. Yet you want your street plowed immediately, that pot hole filled or that sidewalk extended like now. What I can infer that Scott is saying is there are 1000s in the community, in some capacity using the current facilities, but there are 1000s of others that either don't have facilities to use or Ankeny is missing out on that money.....that would go back into the tax base, revenues to the general fund, more crowded restaurants and convenience stores so they expand or at least offer more. We can all see your mind is made up before even learning about the project, which is sad; and I'm sorry you're so uptight about collaboration, community interaction, economies of scale and a healthy lifestyle.

Only a guess but since the school needs to provide a stadium and swimming pools, why would parents pony up themselves? Why would Mr. Kramme say, oh don't worry, I know you need a new stadium and new pool, I'll just build it for you for free. Since the chamber and city have seen the study by the Parks and Rec department on sports return on investment (posted above I read), why would parents go, ya know what, even though we don't see the hotel/motel tax or sales tax from teams hitting up mcdonald's and olive garden, we'll just use our own funds so you can double dip? There is a need here and so I'll keep posting it, WHY ARE WE SO AFRAID OF PARTNERSHIPS, COLLABORATION, ECONOMIES OF SCALE verse me me me, mine, mine, mine and not sharing?
William I see you still aren't posting your last name, why is that?

Amen!

William - ?

William I hope you're not saying I'm Scott Myers ("My question for Tony Carroll, Scott Myers and other members of the Ankeny Athletic Booster Club who are posting here in support of Mr. Kramme......"). Well unless he's a very rich guy then I'll be him but other than that keep guessing William.

so crowded?
streets?
please tell me how I benefited by a fire station being built no where near where most of the growth in Ankeny is - north and west. Please tell me how I benefited by a police station built where it is. Please tell me how I benefited by valuable land the city basically gave away having municipal buildings built on it (no tax help), schools being built on the land (no tax help). How do you think the schools will pay for these same projects? How do you think the city will pay for new parks or new facilities for recreation opportunities for a growing community? You're talking out both sides of your mouth. I have no problem with a private developer wanting to help the city and school district do exactly the same thing I don't have a problem with - building similar projects. The difference - one proposal is school district, community and tax revenue generating based and the other effects bond rating, will increase taxes and is only for the schools and those associated teams.

Joe, so how then, in your scenario, does the school district then use these facilities that it needs - football stadium, indoor pool for 2 different swim teams, 2 different diving teams, green space for practise and indoor space for practise? How does the school end up benefiting in your scenario? We need to keep the ideas flowing since there is a need and thus SHOULD look at all options.

Joe I'd love to hear your thoughts to Scott Koch's question. We can all hate ideas, be 100% against them and state they are the worst ever ...... but then what's your solution, your alternative to what's needed? Because we're not talking about wants but real needs based upon real (and year by year increasing) numbers.

Scott- they could rent it for the games just like Roosevelt and Dowling rent Drake stadium. Then that money can be taxed and everyone gets some.

Unless I am mistaken and without any documentation available, I have gleaned from comments on the blog here that the school district would pay 1 million $ for 20 years, and the City Gov would pay $1 million for 20 years also. If correct, that would add up to $40 million total for City of Ankeny which is way more than the $27 million the school district would like to spend. I also do not believe all these sports facilities need to be built and financed all at once. Prioritize them over time and build them sequentially. Which is more important a football stadium or pools...why did the
City build two aquatic parks and not pools for schools??

Joe I believe if you read the article, in the "first section" it states:
Both the city of Ankeny and the school board eventually could be asked to consider a 20-year leasing option to finance the project, Kramme told Ankeny Patch following the meeting. The lease would mean both entities would contribute about $2.1 million each per year toward the project's capital costs.
- At first glance, at my first glance I thought the same thing - that equates to about $80 million whereas the school is projecting around $15 million to built the stadium and about $12 million to build 2 competition pools with a diving portion. Here's a couple of differences - one takes everything into the construction costs, one doesn't. One has all costs figured in over time, one has only construction costs. I called a contact at the Waukee Y, it costs about $300-350,000/year to just run a pool, one pool. One pool complex allows swim, diving and community practise/lap swim whereas the other allows swim OR dive and NO community opportunities. Next fall we will have 2 varsity, 2 JV, 2 Soph, 2 Freshman and then I don't know how many 8th and 7th grade teams.....wow! One plan gives the district options and provides for the varsity teams, the other creates headaches, creates practises that have to go later and possibly Saturday games. What don't we need now what's part of this proposed project?

Joe I think that is a great question for your people at city hall however at first glance I would say it either has to do with Cascade sits in the "south" zone thus they'd have to build a pool "north" or the pool would obviously need to be indoors and most people want their aquatic center under the sun. But more over I'd guess it has to do with space. A competition pool needs to have certain requirements, especially if you look at what Johnston, SE Polk and Waukee have done in the past couple of years.

Tony- sounds awsome. Let them build it and the school board can sign a usage agreement to rent the facility for every football home game over the next 10 years. They would have a pre-approved renter and income source to add to their buisness model to help spur investment to get it built. OPEN YOUR EYES TONY. OPEN YOUR MIND TO something else beside a money grab from the taxpayer. TAKE A RISK and reap the rewards or suffer the failure. Just dont drag the city or school into being the scape goat like Obama did. No one is TO BIG TO FAIL.

"Live the Values of Respect, Dignity, Honesty, Responsibility, and Teamwork"

The Boise School District's Physical Education curriculum is a K-12 content responsibility comprised of 4 key areas:
Psych-Motor Skills
Cardiovascular Conditioning
Strength
Sports

These areas spiral throughout the elementary curriculum and comprise the standard curriculum for secondary courses.

Participation in District interscholastic athletic programs provides educational enrichment for our students, and has the potential to contribute to the total development of each student in positive ways.

We do not measure our success through wins and losses - we strive instead to offer an enjoyable experience to our young people.

The Boise School District's athletic programs and PE courses strive to:
- develop student potential to the maximum;
- build 4 character traits including respect, critical thinking, responsibility and good judgment;
- develop skills, habits and attitudes necessary for full enjoyment and appreciation of life;
- foster a life long love of learning.

Ankeny isn't the only school district that values sports and activities in their student's lives as a way to foster education and learning through the years

Joe I don't have a business plan, haven't seen a business plan and have to assume that since they are using a company out of Florida that does this for a living there is a business plan. Have you written and asked Mr. Kramme? You written Mr. Kramme and offered to meet him for coffee, breakfast, 30 minutes over lunch or in the evening? Also, let's be careful when we throw around numbers. After doing research and calling the Y, a few school districts that have built stadiums lately including Valley Stadium which opened 10 years ago and some other entities, one number seems to be for everything, has operating costs included (ie the ongoing payment) and another has to be just bricks and mortor, no streets, pipes, electrical, on-going maintenance, annual operating costs, etc.

Mark- Here is an idea- get PRIVATE investors and build it so they will come. Why hit up politicians for the money?

Jack F - If I told you to invest $2.10 and I'm not only going to return $30.00 to you but it positively effects EVERYONE around you, that would be a pretty good deal wouldn't you say?

Scott- key word is you "told" me. My stock broker "told" me my retirement was safe and would return 20-1. That was fun. Government should not force me through taxes to "invest" in this speculation. It might be the next best thing but should be private and pay taxes on the profits... Not the other way around.

While I can't comment on your chose of stock broker, investment banker or other comparing our children, participation, the impact of youth sports and the availability of events out there that could create that economic impact isn't even comparing apples and oranges. The City of Ankeny's own study, 5 different sports industry magazines, close to double digit organizations saying build it and there are events we want to bring there - if you don't believe me I can give you the list. There are also around 900 kids in the 2012-13 kindergarten class who should benefit from a first class, well rounded education. They aren't Lebron James, Rebecca Lobo, Shawn Johnson but they want to & should be able to participate; and their parents do pay taxes. In addition, please read the information below. Hopefully it will answer some questions along with shedding light on your doubts, shed light on your tax statement.

Jack, how do you think the city is going to provide more green space for their growing rec needs? Where do you think P&R holds their basketball, volleyball and other indoor activities right now? With growing school needs you don't think those will be the first groups to go? How do you think the school will pay for the needed football stadium? the pool needed for the 2 swim and 2 dive teams and the extra space needed for all these practises that will have to happen? In addition, and maybe you didn't play football, have kids that played football but the varsity teams need to get on the main field more than just Friday night at 7:30pm and that isn't unique to Ankeny or Iowa. Are you anti this project or just anti physical exercise?

Jim- good idea- however, I work in DSM and am close to retirement. Some of the big boys in town have long arms. Also, my wife works for the school and I have seen first hand what happens to employees that have outspoken family or do not tow the party line. The board under Pats first reign would burry any employee that spoke against her board. Sounds like after 5 years those good ol times are back. So all you get is my REAL 1st name to protect the innocent.

Jack the saddest part of your statements is they are true!
Not too keen on some of the current school board members but Pat needs to go.

Now back to sports ......

Joe, another reason why I'm concerned and why I like this proposed complex. Did you hear about the recent Health and Fitness Expo?
From April 17th .......
Last week, Ankeny High School, in conjunction with the U.S. Army, local businesses and Gov. Terry Branstad’s Live Healthy Iowa campaign, hosted the Health & Fitness Expo at AHS to promote healthy living among Ankeny teens.

The expo, held on April 11, kicked off with army representatives presenting AHS PE teacher Holly Anderson with a copy of the governor's proclamation naming this week "Strong and Healthy Students Week."

Where in the community can youth and adults do this year round? The swimming pool is inadequate, the only gym space is inside a school or at that fieldhouse by the car dealerships that isn't air-conditioned, the YMCA is the only major fitness center and cramped is an understatement, there is no indoor space for kids to simply run around and limited outdoor space because Prairie Ridge was built for about half as many people that now use it (see city involvement needed in this project).

Who said anything about not supporting education or being passionate about it? We just built/opened a new high school, new middle school, a few new elementary schools & are finishing another high school. We've recently hired numerous educators & are near the top of academic achievement in the state. But in your world athletics shouldn't receive the same facility support? What type of activities do you think generate funds, both in the school system and outside of it?
Your second paragraph exemplifies the past. Everyone should be helping everyone with the dollar not stretching as far anymore. The school district shouldn't be involved in the things you say IF, IF that's the only reason they are doing it. Your idea that we can all have our own, no one should help anyone else, nothing impacts anything else in the same community is disappointing. The School District needs facilities. If those facilities can be built in such a way (similar to many school districts across the country) that benefit both the school district, the community and the tax payer why would you want to isolate yourself? Why would you want your high school stadium only used a few months out of the year? Your facilities sitting there losing money? Stimulating the local economy puts money BACK INTO the schools let's not forget. Everything is intertwined but I'm afraid some people can't open their blinders and are stuck in their isolationist ways.

Posted above by Scott
The Boise School District's Physical Education curriculum is a K-12 content responsibility comprised of 4 key areas:
Psych-Motor Skills
Cardiovascular Conditioning
Strength
Sports

I guess there are others that see sports, physical activity and the like as part of education also, especially at a young age.

William you also saw the post above stating?
There are only two owners in the Sports Complex, Ankeny Schools, and the City of Ankeny. The Kramme's will discount the 150 acre commercial site by $18 million and agreed to donate an additional 18.5 acres for a future elementary school. Just wanted to make sure since that would save your whining butt money and as the district continues to grow by 300 kids per year (my guess is the 36th street interchange will only increase the grow) future money as the district won't have to bond for very much to build another elementary school.

Where in any of these posts is anyone saying put athletics first? And where in any of these posts did anyone even approach or allude to the fact that education is not important at the k-12 level?
Where do you think some of that tax money comes from? That sales tax money? That hotel/motel tax money the city gets that goes towards it budget? Do you think those dollars just magically appear and would keep apprearing (and growing) if no one came to this town for a band competition, softball game, cheer competitiong or track meet? No one is saying the School District should do any of those items you listed. The problem is 100s of other school districts, cities and communities have partnered so they all can win and reap multiple benefits over and over. Take a look William, Ankeny Community Schools is currently indirectly involved with stimulating the economy - were last night when they played Johnston in baseball. Were a few months ago when they opened their gyms to a basketball tournament. Were a few months ago when they hosted a swim meet. It's not new and definately not something Ankeny is inventing. William why are you so against collaboration and partnerships? Topeka, Manhattan, Lawrenece, Hutchinson, Kansas City, Olathe, Cedar Rapids, Davenport, East HS/Grand View all aren't.

Joe I believe the "least financial impacxt on taxpayers" was answered above.

Go up to a high school athlete and tell them football or soccer is a hobby. Then let me know which hospital to send the flowers to. As for your next argument, the last time I checked there are only about 80 kids per team standing along the sidelines at a varsity football game. So 160 kids, say 2.25 parents per kid (divorces), 2 siblings per kid which means there should be about 680 people in the stands. Where do the remaining 6,000 come from to watch this hobby? Oh that's right, sports impacts a lot more people than just those participating. William, Sports Business Journal and other magazines will give you example after example how sport positively impacts everyone's lives, whether it's those participating, those working part-time taking tickets or the community as a whole gravitating towards competition.
Where in Jessica's statement, other than where you wanted to see it, does relate horseback riding to creating economic impact? Or something not related to school, ie a hobby, as wanting funding?

William, since you know how to contact me I would love to meet up and chat about how "how participating in high school athletics teaches character and "positively impacts everyone's lives". I never started a varsity game yet played football and basketball all 4 years, throw in a combination of track and tennis over 4 years yet I learned a lot in all those years, I made friendships with people at schools not my own, I met someone who helped me get my Master's Degree too.
So while I can guess where Andrea was going with that comment (sarcasm), it obviously failed with you.
There are more to k-12 sports than just the starters, more to k-12 sports than the 36 scholarships the recent graduating Ankeny class has and more to k-12 sports than the game on Friday night when the lights are on and teams/individuals are competing against each other.
I would love to sit down and chat William about the education and learning opportunities sports provides along with the economic values that effect far more than those playing and their parents watching. Maybe we'll both learn something. I look forward to hearing from you.

Scott, thanks for the invitation to talk sports. Let's stop pretending, for a moment, that the Kramme brothers project, and high school sports in general, is all about meeting the needs of students. It isn't.

Since your livelihood and employment status depends upon the perpetuation and promotion of high school and college athletics, I'm sure you understand that as a society (and Ankeny is especially guilty of this) we have professionalized and emphasized the high school sports culture until it is no longer a game or a hobby for kids to enjoy together.

Instead, adults have taken over and turned what is supposed to be something fun for kids to do together into a multi-billion dollar business where the adults are much more concerned with ROI, profit margins, and padding their own pocketbook than they are with just letting kids play.

The Kramme brothers would never have invested $85,000 into this mega sports complex plan if they didn't see dollar signs coming back to profit them personally. This sports park isn't an altruistic plan designed to build the character and moral fiber of our high school students. It's a plan to put money into the pockets of private individuals using the tax dollars of our educational system. Follow the money.

William I've seen the extreme good and the extreme bad when it comes to parents and sports. That being said, I don't fully agree with your 2nd paragraph and the generalizations you are making nor your last paragraph either.

I look forward to hearing from you and sitting down to chat sometime.

Mr. Kramme I belive part of it is about timing. Not only do you have a lot of change occuring but you have a community that has some individuals that didn't want 2 high schools, that wanted over 3,000 kids in the high school for whatever reason. Then there are also other individuals that didn't want 2 high school for various other reasons and are pissed off it got done and spent their money. So you're fighting a lot of emotions, whether they are right or wrong, there is a reason they say hindsight is 20/20 and love is blind because emotions sometimes blur the big picture.
A couple of questions for you:
-Has the final amount, the annual payments to pay off the bond, been determined yet or is the $4.2 (2.1 each) a high end amount?
-Does your swimming pool project include just a 50 meter pool or that and a separate diving well? I know the school would only built a 50 meter.
-Remind us again who will actually own the complex?
-Parking is a nightmare at the current stadium, now many parking spots do you propose compared to the current set-up?
-It keeps getting brought up, have you reached out to any private investors such as John Deere, Casey's, Toro, Wells Fargo, etc?
-The city has given out a lot of incentives to other companies lately, what about that option?
-What about using TIF money?
-Are you truly donating land for a future elementary or is that just a ruse to get us parents on your side?

Mr. Kramme, your numbers about the September 2012 bond referendum are NOT correct.

This bond referendum is for $18.5 million to build the tenth elementary school in Ankeny only. It DOES NOT contain ANY money for a football stadium OR swimming pools. Additionally, the referendum does NOT increase property taxes.

Please see the Ankeny Community School District website for correct information here: http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=118713&sessionid=1ba1256df518b4abc070399cbe1d878

William, do you think the football stadiium and new swimming pools are free? If you don't think they are going to be built, where do you suppose the 2 swim teams are going to practise let alone compete? Cascade Falls will be closed during their seasons. No it doesn't say it in there but I'd suspect that the Kramme's have been in 1-2 more meetings than you and didn't just pull the $10.5 and $15 out of a hat. Maybe there is going to be a separate referendum. Maybe it hasn't been added yet. Maybe the board is trying to cut corners and lower the costs. I'm sure you don't believe all the political ads on TV so why would you believe everything from these politicians?

Scott, you'll get no argument from me that Ankeny is sports obsessed and could support such a mega-athletic/entertainment facility. If the Kramme brothers economic impact numbers are correct, Ankeny's economy could certainly benefit from such a boost.

My opposition to this project lies solely with the funding aspect - school district taxes should not be used to benefit private enterprise, stimulate the economy or attract business to the city. School taxes are paid to directly educate students in the classroom and provide basic extra curricular activities.

Those taxes are not paid to provide students with college and professional level sporting facilities so they can train for their selected sport year round. Taxes aren't paid to make it more convenient for parents to watch their children play sports. School taxes aren't paid to provide community entertainment, fill hotels and restaurants, or draw more business to the community.

All of the benefits you mention are positive things for Ankeny, however, they should be obtained using PRIVATE funding sources. Private money builds it and private money benefits from it.

The school district is in the business of educating students. They are not in the business of economic development, community entertainment, or training the next Olympic athlete.

Jim: This is the primary basis for developing a complex of this size and in this location. SFA projected the economic impact to be over $30 million a year to Ankeny and the surrounding area. The Sports Complex is the center of an Entertainment Destination Plan for this property.

na

Joe: I agree with your assessment of who owns and benefits from any revenue surplus generated from this complex. Property Taxes pay for services rendered from the City and the School. Surplus revenue should be utilized to offset any increases in property taxes.

Thank you for answering some of the questions I have. What I meant by incentives the city is giving out - they provide breaks, options, low financing, etc to Toro is the most current example
http://www.businessrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=37&SubSectionID=100&ArticleID=16897
The Ankeny City Council will have a public hearing April 2 to consider a variety of development incentives for the proposed Toro Co. distribution center.

Because unless I'm mistaken, although the distribution facility will help in the commerical realm and take some pressure off us tax payers, it still doesn't solve the Parks & Rec problem of a lack of facilities for programming nor does it bring any visitors to our community to spend money and help increase the city's tax revenue.

Mr. Kramme - are there any other options for lowering the payments from the city and school district? Right now you're talking about $2.1 from each, do you have options so that payment might be $1.5 from each? When does the sports advisory group say the complex will break even? And once it starts breaking even and making money, might that decrease the amount of money the city and school district have to pay?
Is it possible to provide a list of companies, commercial or retail, that you are looking to bring to the area to surround this complex and hopefully provide a further development that will help lower my property taxes?

Mike - why if you were DMACC and their athletic department staff would you place your sports in two different cities? Don't you think that would cause logistical problems and transportation expenses that could be avoided? Great idea but unless DMACC is willing to relocate all their sports from Boone, I see too many negatives to splitting their sports.

Personally I'd rather see Ankeny reach out to Ankeny Christian Academy (which currently plays some football games as far away as Indianola) or Faith Baptist Bible College which doesn't offer track and field, baseball, softball or swimming as a partner.

planet = plenty and went = Wendt I'm assuming?

I believe it is comparable to the land that Valley, Waukee, Johnston, Urbandale, Simpson/Indianola, Williams Stadium, Ames all sit on. Or very similar to the land that Iowa City stadiums sit on or better yet, the one piece of land the Cedar Rapids or Devenport school stadiums sit on since they decided to share.
High School football nor any other high school sport isn't the most important aspect of k-12, but then again neither is education the most important part. Everything has a piece in the pie to help mold those as they develop through k-12. Drama, Band, Cheer, Art, Dance, Football, Soccer or Tennis all help mold our children's lives in some capasity. Football gets the most attention because it draws the most crowds. However football is almost a great community event. A great community function. A chance for mom and dad to come together and enjoy time together. Think how many of your parents were friends with your friend's parents solely because of the k-12 activities you participated in. Everything fits into that pie, some like education are a bigger piece of the overall k-12 experience, but everything fits and everyone's slices are a little bit different.

Scott,
This is awesome information!!! I am reposting this elsewhere and I think everyone needs to copy and paste this to all of your friends and family in Ankeny. This is the information that needs to get out!! Not all the misinformation and personal agenda type stuff. This is real solid information.

Thanks Tony. It seems as though some individuals offer opinion verse read and ask questions. I appreciate Ms. Henderson and Joe Dygas asking questions and Mark answering those questions. I just wish William, Peter, Mike, Jack and even to an extent Joe would ask questions, gather their thoughts and concerns. Most people don't think about the city and school facilities we currently have that are expenses and take tax dollars to build, operate and maintain. This project as least provides a revenue stream back to the tax payer.

I just hope a town hall meeting is sooner than later or at least some sort of Q&A type material is made available. As I talk to a lot of parents to get them to understand it is good, but only in small doses, as I'm sure you find taking with your booster members and parents that are worried either nothing will happen or a band-aid will be applied to the hold in the dam.

Hey Scott! This is the best Post I've seen yet. For whatever reason the truth seems to rub some people the wrong way. Thanks for being honest and factual!,

Currently, according to the city's website, Parks and Recreation is a net loss (probably that case everywhere across the country). Now P&R says Prairie Ridge makes money but I'd be curious what is included in those numbers. Regardless, what's proposed is another city owned sports facility COMBINED WITH a school district owned facility, that makes money, this time bringing in visitors 12 months out of the year verse the current 6-8 of Prairie Ridge and 3-4 month usage of school owned facilities?
Again, the city and school district have items that not only cost tax payer money on the front end, but cost the tax payer annually. This proposed Sports Complex is projected to start making money I believe though I can't find how many years that is. Let's at least hear more.

I agree, kind of like "it's a little quiet, a little too quiet". Proceed with caution but still be open to all ideas. I think we need to have a town hall meeting, invite the Sports Group out of Florida, maybe those that spoke to the school board and are quoted in this article, including Mr. Koch who according to William seems to have a lot of knowledge and a dog in the fight on the sports and events attraction aspect. I think people are so concerned with spending money, so skeptical that they need their questions and more importantly misinformation answered and changed.
Yes, the school board and city council will decide. However, if the great concept it sounds like and some of us believe, and then more citizens learn and believe also, the school board and city council who are supposed to be representing the tax payer's best interest will hopefully listen, correct? Currently it seems as though some are reacting to personal opinions, vendettas, past experiences and the like, which they aren't supposed to be, correct?
Listen, Ankeny Schools and the Community needs something. Other communities have already done "something". I haven't heard anything that doesn't create an expense, doesn't give a return, doesn't have commercial value, isn't only built for a singular purpose out of the school district or city but this project.......if there's a better answer I'm 100% all ears!

Hi Jo Ann, All of the ground that were talking about was annexed into Ankeny in 2006. We are paying City Property Tax. Thanks for your concern.

Who owns the Police Station, Fire Station, Library? The City of Ankeny! If the City and the School co own the Sports Complex it stands to reason that the liability would be the owners!

Joe I would have to imagine it would be no different than it is now. At Prairie Ridge the city is liable. When the schools host AAU or other types of basketball or volleyball tournaments the schools would be liable, though those groups also have their own liability insurance their their respective organizations. I think it would be a better question for each entities lawyers and probably a better "wait and see" for how the contract would look between SFA, the city and the school.

Were developing it a piece at a time!

William, if I follow you correctly you're also saying that in the next 20 years the city won't build any parks, buildings, trails, etc because in some of these posts we've gotten away from the essence of this project & you're comment of an "entertainment" venue hits it on the head. The proposed regional sports complex isn't planning to built a 20,000 seat stadium, a track to rival Drake Stadium, enough basketball courts like the Lied Rec Center in Ames, a pool like the one in Indianapolis or facilities that a city with a population of 350,000 needs. This proposal based everything upon what our community has, where it's stretched, where it's lacking & what is needed to fit now with room to expand in the future.
If we also follow your thought the school district will never built anything either.

We need to keep in-mind that parks, trails, the current school district owned stadium and baseball/softball fields are expenses, they do not generate money and most definitely do not generate money for the tax payer of Ankeny. No individual, the Kramme's, Albaugh's, Elwel's or Koch's should be gambling with tax payer money. And they aren't even approaching it with this project. The school district needs a new stadium, pool and indoor space. The city/P&R needs indoor space, a larger pool and just more facilities to program out of. The current stadium doesn't make money, thus in your world it "failed" yet it's still around. Parks don't make money, yet they are still around.

William I think your logic is a little off. However I'm sure if you were willing to contact the Krammes they would be more than willing to talk to you about the project, the ins and outs, answer all questions you have and possible ones you haven't even thought about. The question we should ask you is why won't you contact them, why are you hiding behind the patch? Heck I've even offered to meet you anytime, anyplace to discuss sports, what I've learned throughout the years, the economics and the potential for the community to be impacted whereas now we aren't.

William I think what some of those that are against this project miss is there are so many projects and facilities that currently are expenses, they don't make money, most don't even generate revenue period.
We need to look at what others are doing and say, if one does it and it's successfully copied then why aren't we doing it also? As an Ankeny resident I not only want my facilities (city and school district) top notch but I want them used and by all means if possible I would like them to have a positive ROI! We don't need a 10m platform diving board or another UNI-Dome but we need something.
And the something these individuals, could've been anyone in my mind, are proposing are based upon needs and in the end make money. They take money from the tax payers in an essense and give a significantly higher amount back. Worst case scenario, we end up what we have now - facilities that are expenses, provide quality of life benefits and programming for Parks & Rec and provide venues for the school district but don't make money. We have to understand what someone states above, these are municipally owned facilities based upon a revenue model and facilities that SFA scaled back from the original design.
If you still aren't convinced, go have a conversation with the Aquatics Director at the YMCA and see how difficult her job is ..... with just 1 swim team and no diving teams. William do you know why we don't have a dive team?

Mark, I understand it is easier to launch personal attacks and attempt to discredit those who may disagree with your tax funded mega-athletic complex idea than it is to provide coherent, professional and mature responses to questions and oppositional comments.

However, I've found that most taxpayers, city officials and school board personnel prefer to place their trust, and their money, in those business professionals who demonstrate competent, civil and appropriate behavior both in person and online. Throwing a fit and demanding that those who disagree with your ideas move away from Ankeny is childish and speaks volumes about true character and motivation. Taxpayers, city officials and the school board president are wise to shy away from this idea and those who stand to profit economically from it.

Let's start writing. We have enough time to post on here, write your board members and ask why this Regional Sports Complex is so hush hush in their world.
http://ankeny.schoolfusion.us/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=64632

Charlotte, depending how long you've been an Ankeny resident, you should be able to answer some of your own questions. Why didn't Ankeny have a back-up plan in 2007 or whenever, because no one wanted to go to 2 high schools. It is very apparent still that people are out raged and almost feels like their family was personally attached when you talk to them about the opening of Centennial. I agree that everyone is still divisive and that's a very bad problem, whether this complex gets built or not. Scott Miller at least put out a few "cliff notes" of these postings but myself, I still have a lot more questions and I think everyone wants to know more about the finances. William believes nothing should be built in this community and for that I'm disappointed, however to say the city has no money is far from the truth. We need to remember there are two pots of money in every government and certain items, by law, can only be taken out of each pot. The general fund is one pot.
I do like the idea of at least talking with Prairie Trail however I personally don't like the location. You'd put yourself in a position to be even more land-locked, farther away from interstate access and in some people's mind, closer to Ankeny HS and farther away from Centennial HS.
No we aren't Topeka, at least I think we aren't! There is a comparison to an innovative idea a school district, city and community did to solve problems similar to ours.

Hi Charlotte, Have you had the pleasure of experiencing the traffic mess at the new High School? We were told that the PT didn't want the Stadium and that the City wanted $10 million to up grade the transportation system if the Stadium was located there. Getting 10,000 fans into PT would be problematic. The Regional Sports Complex would meet the needs of Ankeny Sports as well as Regional Sports competitions for many years to come!

Jessica, my back-up plan comment, and your response, just points to continued dissension here. Do not ever generalize, with those of us who have been here for many years, by placing me and mine in that category of those who, as you say, "no one wanted to go to 2 high schools." So not true, but how this path was set here-I have no loyalty to old-ankeny..It seems we back then in '07, in voting YES, had no idea of what was to come later on. Yes, the path is set, it will be done, but William and others like me, question that possible reason for doing so in the first place-sports? Opportunities here are not created equally. And, your newest newcomers' view here of sports-related issues now, just reinforces that old-town view, of what is really more important here...Sports, as always, no fault since we grow up with that view...Just hoped ankeny could balance both sports, academics, and ETC. NOT! But, that is ok, my expectations were low with academics being a given here, while totally not knowing my little kiddos' potential in sports. Very early on here, it was clear which of the 2 was no. 1, and it still is..Despite strides trying to try to assure us what is really no. 1. Fine, you and yours may not have had academic concerns over the last 5 yrs.-OR EVER, but for those of us who have had, it is clear we should've never have spoken up. That path was set, too, and ????? was never a good thing. Heaven help us,and thank goodness we are not Topeka.

Yes, Mark, I have had the DISPLEASURE in experiencing that traffic mess at the new HS. Sorry for the excessive use of caps, but with a kid or 2 in that mess, I well know. Balancing the dreamer ideas of 1 huge development, with those of our kids, in their schools? City, schools, developer, well...We see how that has played out in yr. 1, with those traffic problems, and curvy roads from the west our kids like to speed on, not to mention their parents. I do admit to speeding, but I can't help it, so easy to do...

Mark, finally, I don't see the need to develop your plans East, just because of easier interstate access there. If i was a resident off of E. First E. of 35, and living near there, I would never be able to see how the traffic mess there could ever be helped by your plan. Only make it worse for those living already there. Not as many affected in PT. Yes, the interstate access in PT is not as close, but can't help thinking, still, "if you build it, they will come." We were told that with PT, and you are doing the same now. Not sure why we would think this plan of yours will succeed, based on the past. Oh, I know the economic downturn derailed PT in some ways, but it is there, it is vast. If you build there, maybe those businesses will follow, but...I see, the old developer vs. the newer one, and never the 2 shall meet. Oh, it seems, too, that PT is much more centrally located sports and other-wise, despite which hs is there. Land-locked, Jessica, well that is so precious, with AHS, and those of us on the NORTH side being farther away from Centennial hs. I had to ask myself, if Kramme's project goes forward, it's clear which location is more central.

Charlotte, you are more than welcome to contact me to discuss all the possibilities that don't exist currently and do exist once this complex, that can be built in phases remember, were to be built.

Charlotte, I believe someone posted above where this complex would be located and I believe it would be central to both high schools. Can you give me examples on how academics isnt important in Ankeny, hasn't made huge strides, isn't tops in the state, etc? I was under the understanding that our students were excelling in the classroom, that we built state of the art classrooms and new schools, that some of our programs our directors are and have been implementing are actually being copied by others - that's pretty good, right? Lastly, and one we shouldn't forget, academics should never be downgraded, however we must understand that sports is an important development tool, creates learning and education opportunities and has molded some of finest minds Ankeny has produced. I was never an elite athlete, never started a varsity game in my life yet I played sports since I was in 2nd grade because my parents saw the value. Other parents see the value in band, theater, cheer or strictly academics. This is about keeping options open and available for the 900 person kindergarten class that will start this fall

Mark, of course all those players involved in PT didn't want a stadium of any kind there-originally. Not in that original plan, maybe? That stadium location was left up to the school district to decide, outside of PT. All grand plans from the developer, the city and schools, in collaborating. It didn't work out as envisioned, except for 2, and soon 3, schools being located there. Fine. But, what assurances do we really have from you, with your plan, that it will succeed? Sorry if I think of a "pipe dream" now with your good intentions, just as I did back then with PT's grand plan.

Mark, how recently were you told that PT didn't want the stadium? Is there any chance now of negotiations between realtors, developers, players such as you and that other one? As far as the city wanting $10 million to upgrade transportation if a stadium is located in PT? Well, it seems all those people were expected to flock there in the first place, and not just for sports-shopping, dining, etc.. Your location now, well, the city had already planned to upgrade that congested 1st and Delaware off I-35. Convenient in moving 10,000 fans in and out there. Just wondering, too, who you are meaning in 10,000 fans? If those fans are those going to HS football games, I don't see why getting 10,000 fans would be problematic at all in PT, if there was every that many fans, btw. If so, great, but your location seems much more problematic to me in moving people in and out. Lastly, what will happen to the prairie ridge sports complex, if your plan moves forward? This was a very good, well-spent collaboration with the city and sports interests here. How much will PR be used if everything needed, or mostly, will be out east?

Scott, this location is not central to both HS, being on the extreme east side- now undeveloped- that far out. More farmland was just bought up for future non-farm expansion. I realize this cost a lot of $$ with the high land prices, but I'd much rather see this area out to pasture in any terms than that land in PT just sitting there, unused.

I realize debating the location may be a non-issue for those so in favor, but it should be if we have to vote on this. With unused land already bought here. Yes, PT has that hs there now, and any stadium possibly built there may be seen by some as favoring this school over the other. But, remember, Jessica, this stadium for both hs was proposed originally in land clearly on the north side, favoring Centennial, maybe?

Scott, as far as academics here...Yes, better. But, it would be pointless for me to debate you on this issue. Really...

It's probably a combination of items - Centennial opens in about 14 months thus people want to see movement; a football stadium let alone a pool aren't built overnight and who's to say we'll have a mild winter once again; 2 schools & their associated varsity teams have been known for some time, let alone the massive population growth in the last 10 years so frustration mounts; these plans have been talked about at the city and school board levels for years, so sweeping the problem under the rug has created frustration; ask the school district about the "fire" before last year's play-off game against SE Polk.
I do agree that all options, including doing nothing at all, should be laid out. I believe a few school board meetings ago there were 6-10 options for building Elementary 10 including if it passed and if it didn't.
My contention all along has been, is $2 mil or whatever questionnaire, a little yes. But it requires no bond, it provides for both the schools and community verse just schools & associated athletes, their facilities make money verse the schools and community ones that don't, their project puts land onto the tax role verse the schools and community ones that don't. What I will say is Jessica has a point, even within the project there needs to be options, tweaks available or ideas to say hey we hear you, we'll do this instead upfront or for the first 5 years.
Joe I like the points.

William I believe you're wrong. In 2010 Total Expenditures = $2,847,041 and Total Revenues = $1,242,727. This proposed sports project is showing to be revenue generating in I believe Mr. Kramme said 5 years, so let's call it 6 or 7 to be safe; though Scott Koch will probably disagree with me and say 4. In addition, P&R is working with no indoor facilities, no swimming pool to program out of and limited year-round programming to generate money from. That also means less visitors coming to town spending money year-round which means growth potential into the city's revenue budget line isn't increasing like it could.

Yes, $2.1 million per year might be a little high to ask but again we're talking apples and oranges here. Parents travel and spend money on youth sports. The High Schools need to have these facilities thus they will get used. There are alternative funding sources out there but the project needs to be built first. William I say let's continue to look at all options.

Mr. Kramme, here's another thought to help reduce some costs. Could you provide free office space for Parks & Recreation in your facility? Figure out what they are paying now, what they have now and offer them free space or $1/year if something is needed. There has to be some cost savings there too.

Hey William, Again your understanding of the facts amazes me! You live int the past. We're looking forward not backwards. Both the City and the School System need to create Revenue generating facilities. Renovating a Football stadium connected to a Middle School in the worst transportation and parking location in Ankeny only to be used 9 times makes absolutely no sense. William you keep stating over and over that this Regional Complex won't make any money? You know that not true! The Topeka, KS Complex is a carbon copy of our vision for the Ankeny Complex. I know a lot of people are still upset over splitting the High School into two schools. We can't change that. The School and the City can not afford to build duplicate facilities at each high School and have these facilities sit Idle 90% of the time. This complex would be built to serve the needs of our City and our school and take advantage of Sports Programming that would ensure a steady revenue stream year around. Quit stating that my brother and I should step up and invest in this complex, what do you think it cost us to discount the land by $18 million?

Actually William they don't. You are correct in that's what they represent, 2010 numbers. However where did I or anyone else state that the $2.1 would come solely from the P&R budget, no where did anyone state nor recommend that P&R operations get cut. If we want to throw numbers out there, let's use this one, from 2008 to 2010 participation numbers have increased by 6,000! That's 6 with (3) 0's after it. Don't like that number, how about this one, $2 million of ecnonomic impact through Prairie Ridge that's only open 6, maybe 8 months out of the year and events 90% of the time are on the weekends. Here's another fact, For every $1 out of the City’s General Fund invested into Prairie Ridge Sports Complex, there is a $4.95 return on investment from economic impact. So the city is admitting to the tax payers that sports creates an ecnomic return. How Mr. Kramme, not Sports Facility Advisory, not the booster club but the city. So if we go off the city's numbers, off a complex open half the year that only appeals to 3 large groups - soccer, bb, sf, $2.1 million of investment multiplied by $4.95 would provide at minimum $10.3 million dollars back into the community ..... that's not here right now. That's good, right?

There are also cost saving options and revenue generating opportunities that they new complex could provide. William I see your points and they are valid, if we have tunnel vision and focus on the $2.8 P&R gets, no this makes no sense. But the city is getting new faciities they don't have to build in the future, the city is getting programming space they don't have - period; now parks and rec can make revenue off swim lessons, life guard training, scuba classes, etc. now parks and rec can make money off programming year round because they have indoor space and aren't working around school volleyball, basketball, wrestling; if parks and rec offices are relocated there that's cost savings; I have to believe the budget numbers are based upon paying employees, what savings are there; in addition, Ankeny's park and rec budget has increased, yes slightly, but increased every year since 2008 and $2.8 is a 2010 number. Take an annual increase, take cost savings, take all these new revenue sources and you don't have $2.1 million ..... but you don't have 0 either.

In this situation, the tax grab is a private individual or business (Kramme brothers) seeking to profit (land development) by grabbing public tax money (city and school district taxes) in order to build a a for-profit mega sports complex. There is nothing altruistic or charity-minded in this proposal and it's certainly not being shoved at the Ankeny School Board because the promoters have the needs of children in mind. They want this desperately because they are desperate to make a profit.

It's important to understand that a bond referendum allows taxpayers to vote on whether or not they wish the school district to use their taxes in a certain way. That's generally the way it's done with public money.

An annual appropriation payment will never fly with a public entity like the school district because school funding fluctuates wildly from year to year depending upon state funding In addition, the public gets no say in the matter.

As we've experienced in Ankeny, an across the board cut from the state practically devastated the school district budget a couple of year ago. There is very little, if any, budget available to "shift" in order to pay out a whopping $2.1 million dollar payment annually for 20 years. Not going to happen. There isn't $2.1 million in the Ankeny School District budget to "find." This kind of money isn't available to the school district and it isn't going to be in the future.

There you go again William ... hiding behind an alias. I'm sure you're perfect in every way...

Hey Jim, I'm not running for Political Office. If my past record is all you can dredge up to deflect attention from this project then shame on you. Whats your Plan? Were trying to help the school fix a huge problem in a ridiculously bad economy. Part of the Regional draw to this Complex is the development of the land around the facility. The City needs the Hotel/Motel Sales Tax Revenue, they need the commercial Property Tax revenue. The school needs these facilities to provide a safe, secure environment for our youth to play competitive sports. One thing that I know for sure, if this goes bad, your property taxes are going up!

Mark, When someone came out to my hotel and met with me about this, I was with you on this...but after your comments, particularly how you are trying to" help the schools" i just don't know that i could support this. Why in the world is honesty not being played out here? I haven't heard one person come out and say, hey, I am going to make money off this. I hear how everyone else will benefit, but no one is saying they personally will. The fact is someone will, or this wouldn't even be a discussion. The people involved are not known for the generous acts of kindness. The Kramme's develop land, that is how they make their money. Why in the world are they trying to hide the fact that they will benefit. I would feel better about this if we could cut through the 95% BS and get to the true facts.

Joe, although at this time I can't comment on the financial part (because I dont' know them :)) look at the project as a whole. This complex is built to provide the school district with a new stadium, up to 2012 codes, parking codes, ADA codes and also provide for future growth which doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon. The means the area will see at a minimum 9 football games a year at the varsity level, with hopes of what 12, 13 games per year? Then there is soccer. Swimming, there are plenty of home meets. Basically what I'm saying is why would a private investor, or multiple, start into this project only to have the school district say we're playing our 9+ home games with around 8,000 fans somewhere else? And the city says, ya know what, we're going to built a community center and move a lot of our programming there. What is being proposed now is only an option, with land costs less than what you'd find elsewhere, in a great location but honestly and truthfully protecting themselves a little. There needs to be some give and take, no investor would invest without that assurance but no tax payer should go in without all the facts ..... of all the options that is.

Scott, it is discouraging when at least one of the Kramme brothers has been commenting here but consistently fails to address any of the questions asked, objections raised, or opinions expressed other than to toss out personal attacks and tell those who don't like his project to move away from Ankeny. Why in the world would anyone want to contact the Krammes to provide feedback and ask questions when the Kramme responses here have been so negative, aggressive, and insulting? I've had enough here; I don't need to hear any more to know this project is never going to happen.

Mr. Kramme's responses here are not the type of behaviors and actions of a business person who is really "soliciting public feedback." They are the kind of "communication" from folks who want to identify their opposition and destroy them.

C'mon Scott, don't lower yourself to that level with the tired "ehy no last name" jab. As a professional with your reputation to protect, you're much better than that.

I have my reasons to remain anonymous and am grateful The Patch allows it. Why? Namely 3 children enrolled in the Ankeny school district and participating in a wide variety of school sports and activities. I choose to remain anonymous because I am choosing to shield them from retribution. Call me paranoid if you want, but Ankeny coaches and others take athletics so seriously here that voicing opposing views of anything related to sports can come back on the kids in subtle and not so subtle ways. I've seen it, experienced it, and am simply protecting my kids. Is that good enough for you?

I'm not attacking anyone's past. I am however, pointing out that the developers and promoters of this project have had and continue to have serious financial problems that obviously play into whether anyone -- city, school, or private -- would be wise to invest money with them. With any investment, smart people deal with those who have a credit-worthy past, meet their financial obligations, and avoid expensive lawsuits. In addition, the financial difficulties I read about at Iowa Courts Online go back much further than the Deere Creek Development.

Once again, I have no objections to the project as long as it is done without public money. It's simple. Private $ - private gain.

Kurt, you do have a good point, as Joe said, for Megan to try to summarize this huge string of comments for all of us. Problem is, she shouldn't have to take on this huge job, in letting us comment on here. I'd think it is clear to her that the basic "for or against category", or "best of" should not be determined by a simple Patch vote. We are not voting on the best hair place or photographer to go, for example. Nothing wrong with those polls and their comments. They can help, if you can see through the too-biased comments in pushing one over the other. Too many variables to be boxed into one side or another with this issue.

But, if you are newer to this latest issue in reading the comments, well...I tried to make sense of all the facts and endless $$ figures from the beginning of this project, and I gave up. Until I later started commenting myself, after seeing this issue still being debated. Problem is, for those of us who find that it in our nature to see things from both sides, while refusing to being boxed into either side, while reserving our rights to question, it has not been easy here EVER, in trying to decide which of the various, and changing sides to support. Another problem here, as with politics in general (and our last school board election showed politics oh-so-very-well!), is that those who question that supposedly one clear side or another, are seen as trouble-makers, in not being able to pick a side. Oh, I wish it was that easy!

I think we need to have a Patch poll, asking how long we have lived here, with all the variable breakdowns in any such poll in those number of years. Not sure this will help in 2012, vs. 2007, for example, when that big path forwards was set. But, back then in '07, we "outsiders"-even though many of had lived here for many years, were still viewed as such, it seems. By '07, I really had had enough of the old-town views, of a place I remembered passing through on Hwy. 69, before I-35 was built. I only wish my town had done so well as Ankeny has, overall. Ankeny is far from dying, but it seems this "town" could never show us they were grateful for that.

By 2007, we saw a more progressive school board. Despite how many years they had lived here, or near-by, it seems blame can be placed on all sides in whatever board makeup, in today's situation. With sports. This was the divisive issue back then in '07, balancing Ankeny's sports legacy, with the out-of-control growth. Oh, that board back then tried to tell us sports was not the "main" issue, but- we would double "opportunities" anyway, in going forward. Fine; I was optimistic, and ok with me just voting, in this landmark vote here.

Kurt, the key to this mess now is with SPORTS, in that vision towards a TOTAL TWO HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM-sorry for the use of caps, again. We can blame endlessly those school board makeups of old, and our latest super, too, in leaving us before that vision was completed. HE just couldn't balance that legacy here in this "town", which placed too much of said "legacy" on sports, it seems. Much to be proud of on that sports-front, but I've been too long over that, in still being proud of today's hs sports teams, while they win or lose that ultimate title. Wendt made a HUGE mistake, imo, in having been maybe forced into saying that our facilities here were basically-an embarrassment-as compared to other 4A facilities. And, especially, in that-going forward. Sorry, but this sudden flip-flop of his, while emphasizing for awhile here back then, the academic successes, well. . I was glad to see that academic emphasis, but he suddenly switched into the overwhelming needs of-sports.

Now to NOW, with Wendt gone. For those of us who always gave him a chance here, despite the obstacles, well, he bailed, and he owes us something like $176,000 or so. He, while so totally making his point with this new board makeup, not being able to work it out, well, he was smarter than them. He so totally hood-winked them. After all, we should expect that, what with his advanced degrees.The new board now........Do not take advantage of their cluelessness in going forward with this project, in getting what you want. Fine, I see you want this forced to a vote for them city and school, but be oh so careful...Please.

Kurt, we sorely need "this" here, this mega-sports complex. We set the example for others to follow here. We know how inconvenient it is to have to travel to other much larger cities for our kids' tournaments. In the elite levels, which used to be AAU, but now, well, club teams? Sorry, not up on the latest, but that doesn't matter. If Ankeny can build this, we know they will come. I know one of my sisters would be happy for this, while she lives out in the western burbs of dsm metro area. So terrible to have to travel so far for a kid, in 4th grade, for example, to KC, to ST. L. Oh, if only, this was closer...

Scott, I asked that question as others may have also, but easy to miss with my ramblings. Fun to stir things up a bit here for those so passionately on one side or another. I do apologize. And, sorry, too if I can't commit now either way. I will vote "maybe" on a patch poll on this topic.

Scott, as far as Prairie Ridge, I'd thought that this investment by the city and other parties was a good thing, and that it was doing well even today. According to William, maybe not, in indicating this project has not panned out well for taxpayers. I can't remember, but will your proposed facility be duplicating the outside fields already here at PR for those in club, aau, and other teams?

Ha ha Charlotte, no stiring up, it's refreshing to see/hear both sides of a discussion. I've always said, an argument is where you only see your side, a discussion is where you might disagree however you at least can see and understand both sides.
I would think if there was a poll, a vast majority would pick the button - I need more information before I can register a vote.

Some of your "field usage" should be answered above. Prairie Ridge actually does really well however it's only outdoor fields thus only available April-ish to October-ish and it's bursting at the seems with participation leves ever increasing. Little kids are having to practise minimal during the week or late into the evening. It's not club, aau, usssa, select I'm worried about but those wanting to participate, as I did growing up as I was no where near elite! And although it's not my proposed facility :), the regional complex, through a study by Sports Facility Advisory http://sportadvisory.com/ determined what was lacking in our community and what could be enhanced or added on to. Please keep in-mind that this project could be phased in, probably not the best idea, but still an option. The current design does have flex fields availble for use by the city and related entities/groups which means just how they sound, they can be used for baseball, softball and all ages.

We should Joe, however since the city and school district would be the co-owners of the complex, that would be a better question to ask them what they would do with the projected revenue and economic impact numbers the study says will occur.

On another note Joe, I know you keep posting where's the proposal, post the study, post the information online. Personally I can of a lot of reasons not to post something online that contains specific, detailed information that cost around $75,000 to product and that's it could get stolen. I'm all for transparency, I've said time and again to contact the Kramme's but it's one thing to have a town hall meeting, a community gathering or even a sit down and talk things through. It's another to post this type of information online, where anyone could steal it for their own use. Since the school board and city haven't come forward with much information on this, my own opinion, I wouldn't put my $75,000-ish plan out for someone to copy either. I don't represent the Kramme's, I'm definitely not a lawyer and I most definitely didn't put the dang thing together. It's one thing to throw a plan for how the elementary school is going to look online ..... a completely different ballgame for a $78 million project that board and council hasn't said too much on. I don't blame them, but maybe I'm in the minority.

Joe,
It is my understanding that it is exactly the opposite of your comment. SFA is hosting the public town hall meeting because they cannot seem to get on the city council agenda other then the open part where no one can ask any questions anyway just speak your two minutes or whatever. I am like everyone else on this. I want all the information on both sides, this and the possible bond referendum to be able to decide what is best. This is the way to get their information out there it seems due to circumstances beyone their control. Then when the bond one comes I assume public meetings will be held for that information as well.

It does sound like many backroom meetings have been held with SOME city, school and board members, but certainly not ALL. In addition, failing to provide ALL information about this project to the public prior to a "meet and greet" appears as though the promoters have something to hide. Don't know if they do or not, but it sure looks like it.

The city and school district as a whole obviously have no interest in funding this behemoth sports facility since the Kramme brothers have not been put on any official school board or city council meeting agenda - other than the public comments portion of a couple school board meetings where anyone can speak.

Keep in mind too, that the way the Kramme brothers are proposing the city and school pay for this with annual municipal payments, does NOT require that the public vote on it. This project could be slid through with a vote of the school board. The public only gets to vote if a bond referendum (school district borrows money) is held to pay for it. Pretty sneaky, huh?

When the City or School needs money for capital Improvements or Operations, they issue a Bond referendum that goes to a vote by the Tax Payers. Tax Payers vote No, Elected Officials say "we did our job" the Tax Payers said No, their safe until the next election. The Second Plan, the one you call "sneaky" allows for our Elected Officials to identify a need, adopt a plan, vet it publicly, obtain credit, build it, and pay for it from their annual operating budget. Raising Taxes, Bond Referendums, User Fees, are funding sources for City Council and School Board. The City and the School have maintained their non commitment and distance from this project so they could gain a better understanding of alternative financing options that might be available other than what was stated above. Our Plan calls for utilizing low interest municipal Bonds that are tied to the Ankeny Regional Sports Foundation and are repaid through annual Lease Payments from the City and Ankeny Schools. Our Elected Officials ran on Political Platforms that promised Voters that they would cut and manage city and school programs better than their opponents. Guess what, that’s easier said, than done. Can anyone site a spending cut made by the City or the School since the last election? Cities Grow, Schools Expand, Ankeny is and will continue to grow. For all of you who enjoy living in Ankeny and are expecting our elected officials to cut services, you're going to be disappointed!

Where in the Ankeny School District operating budget do they have an extra $2 million dollars every year for 20 years to pay this lease arrangement? The school district can "manage their operating budget to meet expenses" all they want and they do, but when 80% of the general fund goes to pay salaries and benefits, where is this kind of money to pay a lease going to come from? To pay this kind of money every year would either require an enormous tax increase to raise more money or huge budget cuts to many areas of the operating budget. Cutting academic and educational budgets to pay for sports is unacceptable any way you look at it.

Likewise, where in the City of Ankeny 's annual operating budget do they have an extra $2 million every year for 20 years? The city is currently trying to fix a $1.6 million dollars budget shortage in order to avoid another tax increase in a couple of years. The total annual operating budget for the Parks & Rec dept. isn't $2 million dollars. Where is the money going to come from?

I keep hearing that revenue from this sports complex will just pour in to the city and school district. It might. But it might not. And without a guarantee, the city and the school district will be putting taxpayers and the education of our students at risk. That's not a risk I am willing to take and neither should the school district. Pay for this project with private investor money and leave taxpayers out of it.

I believe in investing in growth opportunities, invest in our schools, expand our commercial tax base, manage or spending, balance the budget, and plan for the future!

Please join us on June 24 6-8 pm at Northview Middle School for an Open Public Forum! Were interested in your ideas! We all have vested interest in our Community and our School System. Pointing fingers and playing the blame game accomplishes nothing for our Community. This Forum is about Ankeny’s Future, not the Kramme’s future. Let’s show other Communities in Iowa how Ankeny Citizens came together to support our Community and our School System, to ensure our Future Success.

Sure you can. If the spending is beyond the income.... you cut. Raising taxes is not the answer ... we are already known for being overtaxed already ( Ankeny is worse than other areas ).

Hey Peter, your not crazy and were not hiding anything! I will not post our Plan on the Internet so other Developers can take it for their own purposes. We were also told not to Post it by City Staff and School Staff as it would cause mass hysteria within the community. How do you Post a 100 page Comprehensive Plan on the Internet?

Ditto!!

I believe the documents actually give away the secret to where Doc Brown hid the plutonium he stole from the Libyan nationalists in the movie Back to the Future. For some reason that secret is hidden in this document, thus it can't be posted online for fear that other nationals might find it.